Charlie Sprinkman

Written By Charlie Ocean
 
 
 

This episode is sponsored by Rebecca Minor, LICSW. For more information about her resource, My Kid Just Came Out: Free Guide for Parents, please visit: https://www.genderspecialist.com/nowwhat

Do you support queer businesses? In this week’s episode, Charlie Sprinkman (he/they) talks about growing up in "small-town vibes" Wisconsin and how it's important for people to find the best language for themselves. Learn about what happened when he came out during the Trump administration. We also discuss how important it is to make things better broadly for future generations and nerd out over the power of LGBTQ+ camps like Brave Trails. Charlie talks about their resource, Everywhere is Queer, and how they got the inspiration for it while driving home from Brave Trails. He also talks about voice dysphoria, traveling across 40+ states, and what queer spaces can do for people.

💜 Donate monthly: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/allyship-is-a-verb/support

👕 Grab merch: https://www.bonfire.com/store/allyship-is-a-verb/

🎧 Follow: https://pod.link/allyshipisaverb

🎙️ Connect with Charlie to learn more about + support their work:

💻 Sources and resources from this episode:

Full Transcript

Chris Angel Murphy 0:17

Well, hello there. My name is Chris Angel and my pronouns are they/them. Welcome to Allyship is a Verb, the LGBTQ+ podcast that explores and humanizes practicing allyship for the LGBTQ+ community and beyond!

Charlie Sprinkman 0:38

Hey, I'm Charlie Sprinkman, and I use he/they pronouns.

Chris Angel Murphy 0:42

Charlie lives in Bend, Oregon currently, and he is the founder of Everywhere is Queer, a master map of queer-owned businesses and a job board. It's super new because it just launched in January of 2022. And within just a few months, as of April, it now has over 500 businesses listed, including mine. We met because Charlie reached out after I submitted my business to chat more about the podcast. After a lovely conversation, I wasn't sure I would be able to get them on this season. However, many of my guests have had to postpone recording episodes to take care of themselves.

Chris Angel Murphy 1:27

And I want to take a moment to honor that, because I think we are starting to talk about mental health very differently now, and more broadly, as a society. It feels good to be able to normalize it in more spaces of my life. That also makes my life much easier as a host if my guests can let me know what would be supportive, including rescheduling. So let's normalize prioritizing our health, rescheduling if it's a rough mental health day, and giving people the space to do that.

Chris Angel Murphy 2:01

I hope you'll join me in following the Everywhere is Queer account on Instagram. Some of what you can expect to see are new milestones and shout-outs for the awesome businesses on the map. If you are a business owner, and you happen to be part of the broader LGBTQ+ community, I encourage you to submit your business and have it on there. Because of issues like safety concerns, it's incredibly important that people only put their own businesses on there. If you want to see your favorite queer-owned businesses on there, tell them about it, and send them the profile and send them the website EverywhereIsQueer.com.

Chris Angel Murphy 2:42

And our intro would not be complete without me rambling off some [Chris Angel laughs] self-reflection questions, so here we go. Here are three self-reflection questions to think about as you're listening, and make sure to stick around after the interview to hear three more before you go.

  1. Have I ever been in a queer space? What did that feel like for me?

  2. How would it feel for me or people I care about to have access to more queer spaces?

  3. Do I know who owns the businesses I support?

And now, the conversation.

Chris Angel Murphy 3:26

All right, you are a queer, cisgender man. What would you like people to know about that experience for you?

Charlie Sprinkman 3:34

Yeah, I mean, um, there's a lot of privileged- privilege behind [Charlie laughs] cis, gay men, queer men in the in the queer community, for sure. Um, and I really acknowledge that privilege. I grew up - and I won't get too into that, [Charlie laughs] but I grew up in, uh, rural Wisconsin. And, um, you know, being a queer person from there was challenging. Um, but, yeah, proud to be a queer, cis man today.

Chris Angel Murphy 4:05

Yeah, and what's cool is you actually recently claimed "queer." Historically, you've been using "gay." I'm wondering, would you feel comfortable sharing a little bit about why you made that switch?

Charlie Sprinkman 4:19

Yeah. I think about, obviously, my identity when choosing these things, but I do think of, like, the world, and, um, a lot of the youth in our world, and I believe that we are forever evolving humans that are learning new things every day and having new conversations every day. And, um, throughout a lot of conversations I've had, um, about sexuality and identity and all these things, I believe that queer is the best word for myself. I believe anyone can be gay. Like, if you want to use gay, use gay. If you want to use queer and that feels best and that's what you identify with, use queer. I don't really care what our society has built the term gay to be because it can change. And you can be whatever you want, use whatever you want. I don't think that there's a strong cut-off in between the two words, you know, but others could think differently.

Chris Angel Murphy 5:21

For sure. I love that. When I teach about pronouns, I explain that pronouns can be for anyone, should they want them. That's because there's folks who maybe have no pronouns, and instead use their first name only, as an example. And so as a cisgender man, what does it mean for you to use he/they pronouns? Like, how does it feel when people use the "they" pronoun set for you versus "he" pronoun set? Is there a difference?

Charlie Sprinkman 5:54

I feel like they/them fits well with me. When I'm around queer community, I feel safe with they/them pronouns. But when I'm not feeling very safe in the community that I'm with, I definitely reside with he/him pronouns. It really depends on the situation I'm in. Maybe that's because I don't want confrontation or questions. Or I also think it just is a lot of my ingrained childhood of not even knowing what they/them pronouns were as growing up and - or learning about they/them pronouns until more recently, the last few years in my life. Um, I'm definitely still on a journey of figuring out what, what fits best for me, and, um... But working on my confidence, working on what fits best for me, and yeah, I think, um, it really is just the situation.

Chris Angel Murphy 6:46

That makes a lot of sense. And I actually think that's the first time I've heard that. I know sometimes when people have two or more pronoun sets, sometimes it can mean they want you to use what's called "rolling pronouns" and sort of just like go between the two almost equally. So in your case, if someone's trying to make sure to be supportive of you, would that mean - would it, like, be helpful if they reached out to you, let's say, ahead of time before, like, an event or hanging out with you to ask you what feels best for that day? Or what would be, like, the best approach for you?

Charlie Sprinkman 7:23

I'm, like, a very honest person, so at any point in any conversation, I'm so here for someone asking, "what pronouns do you want me to use?" I'm never gonna get mad at someone for using he/him pronouns, or using they/them pronouns in really any group. Um, I, I'm not that type of person. So I do welcome them both. And um, yeah, I'm here for anyone that wants to ask me at any time, and I'll share what I feel at that time.

Chris Angel Murphy 7:49

Well, like you mentioned previously, you grew up in rural Wis- Wis- [Chris Angel laughs] I kind of stumbled through that. Okay, let me try this again. As you mentioned, you grew up in a rural area. What was that like?

Charlie Sprinkman 8:03

I grew up 30 miles west of Milwaukee, so, um, some will say - some, some will say rural, some will say suburbia. It definitely was small town vibes, for sure. It was hard, you know, going to a grade school that was 25 kids in the whole class. It was just a challenging experience to hear more stories, um, as I feel like a lot of the stories were just very similar where I grew up. We kind of all did similar things. And um, yeah, that was a challenging space as I did grow up in a Catholic community that I was raised in. And so having been raised in that was challenging as a queer youth, as we weren't able to talk about anything like that. Um, and so, suppressed a lot of things, which I'm still working through. Therapy, [Charlie laughs] highly recommend therapy. I will say that, um, there has been a lot of folks in my life that have chosen to be an amazing ally when I came out a few years ago, and it's those people that are so close to me in my life that have allowed me to keep going here and keep doing what I want to do and me being me.

Chris Angel Murphy 9:20

I love that. Some people who are close to you did vote for Trump in 2016, but then Biden in 2020. How did that impact those relationships?

Charlie Sprinkman 9:35

It's a really great question. Those people that were so near and dear to me, um, you know, I came out in between those years of Trump - in the years of Trump being president. So it was... There was a lot of conversations being had about - you know, I was also in university setting - climate change. And so that was a big conversation in my life, and after just years, and I mean years of conversation, and throughout that election - or throughout that presidency and having a bunch of conversations, it took to just a few days before the election where these people were in my life that had voted for Trump had chosen to vote for Biden just a few days before the election. So I mean, a lot of conversations and, you know, the, the texts that that I received from these people that have why they're voting for Biden, because of all the conversations we had, um, really like, I mean, I broke down in tears and was crying, especially when Biden won.

Chris Angel Murphy 10:40

When you were having those conversations with those people close to you, I think, you know, certainly, as I've been scrolling around through places like Instagram, there's been a lot of accounts talking about how we can be so polarized, it can be harder to find commonality, we can be in these silos. What helped you to have those tough conversations?

Charlie Sprinkman 11:07

Yeah, you know, I think of the youth in our world. And I think about future generations, and I think about my nephew, um, and the world that the youth are going to be raised in. And I personally want it to be so different than what I was raised in, like, the societal structure. And I know things are still tough, but, um - and will be tough. But yeah, I just - having these conversations, it really was about future generations. It's not about, you know, us as individuals, it's we as a collective thinking down the line of our choices now have an impact later. So, that was a really - that's my driving part of my conversations.

Chris Angel Murphy 11:49

Absolutely. And I guess I'm curious with how you did also just mention that, you know, you're - you are looking forward to future generations, and what kind of future they're going to have. I'm also curious, what's something you hope to see, maybe in your lifetime, or an experience you would like to have?

Charlie Sprinkman 12:13

Oh, gosh, I don't know. There's a lot of things going through my brain that's Everywhere is Queer related. I mean, I would love to have the opportunity - and we can chat more about this later - but have the opportunity to hit the road and visit a lot of these queer-owned businesses that are on the map for Everywhere is Queer, and somehow uplift the voices of these folks. Um, that is a dream of mine.

Chris Angel Murphy 12:37

Yeah, and you've already been doing that a little bit on your Instagram now, so fingers crossed.

Charlie Sprinkman 12:43

Yeah. [Charlie and Chris Angel laugh]

Chris Angel Murphy 12:45

Well, something we both share is a love for Brave Trails, which is a wonderful LGBTQ+ leadership camp, and you're rocking the sweatshirt today. And it's grown quite a bit from its start roughly seven years ago.

Chris Angel Murphy 13:03

Okay, seriously, I need to nerd out about Brave Trails for a moment. I was so honored that one of the founders, Jessica, had included me in the initial planning conversations. I got to meet some really cool people, and we all had different skills we were bringing to the table. For two years, I was able to drive out and give workshops on LGBTQ+ leadership, until I started to transition to other projects. Thinking about being in the living room of Jessica and Kayla's home, and starting to map it out, to what it's grown to be now? It's absolutely incredible.

Chris Angel Murphy 13:39

They have youth summer camps, not only in Los Angeles, but also Maryland. They have a family camp, a mental health program, year-round programs, and more. The directors even speak at conferences and consult with other camps on how to make their programs more welcoming and safe for LGBTQ+ youth and staff members. They even just purchased the first-ever LGBTQ+ camp and community space solely dedicated to LGBTQ+ folks, in the world. Jessica and Kayla and all of the folks who helped to make Brave Trails happen, bravo. On that note, they're still raising the funds to help make the space what it deserves to be, so I will be linking to their fundraiser and more info about the Forever Home on the episode page. Please consider donating if you have the means.

Chris Angel Murphy 14:32

I'm curious, how did you find out about them? And what was it like volunteering as a cabin counselor?

Charlie Sprinkman 14:40

Yes, I have so much love for Brave Trails. Um, I found out about Brave Trails through Pattie Gonia, a famous drag queen on Instagram and many different platforms.

Chris Angel Murphy 14:52

Okay, gonna nerd out again. Fucking love Pattie Gonia, and just want to say that if you love drag and the environment, she is one of the best people to be following on Instagram.

Charlie Sprinkman 15:05

Um, but I saw Pattie post, and I, um, knew immediately that this is something that I wanted to apply to. And so I got in, and I went this past summer of 2021 and volunteered as a cabin counselor. I led their outdoor adventure program and led a workshop on environmentalism, which was absolutely amazing. And I'm excited to say I'm headed back this summer of 2022.

Chris Angel Murphy 15:30

That's amazing. Can you tell us more about what that workshop entailed, and like, what y'all would do?

Charlie Sprinkman 15:36

Well, for the outdoor adventure program, it's called a "build on." So when the campers get to camp, they have an opportunity to sign up for one of four build ons - there might be more this next summer, but when I was there, it was four options. And the four options were drag, theater, puppetry, and outdoor adventure. And so this is something that the campers came to each day of camp, and we built up to something at the end. So like, the drag build on led up to a drag show. Um, but, for outdoor adventure, uh, we learned a lot of different things about zero waste camping, Leave No Trace, how to start a fire safely, a lot of different ways of eating food in the backcountry, how to set up a tent. We talked a lot about the environment, and how to make a very low impact when going into the outdoors.

Charlie Sprinkman 16:31

So yeah, that was the build on that I led. And we built up to a little stage performance of us going camping. Unfortunately, we couldn't go camping because of the pandemic. So we just did a little stage camping explanation of what we all learned throughout the week. And then the environmentalism workshop that I led, which was just a one, one-time workshop that they got to sign up for was great. We just talked to all about the basics of environmentalism and what that looks like, and really talked about intersectionality, which is so important when approaching environmentalism and many different things.

Charlie Sprinkman 17:07

It's really taking in every account that's involved when talking about something. So when talking about the environment, um, if we're talking about soil health, we're looking at all the communities that are impacted around that current soil. We're talking about the air quality, we're talking about water quality, you know, it's really taking in every single thing. And every single person, people, planet, you know, all the things that are involved when talking intersectionality about something environmentally.

Chris Angel Murphy 17:39

What kind of work did you do previously, that helped you to be so knowledgeable about all of this, and to be able to nerd out on it with the youngins?

Charlie Sprinkman 17:50

Yeah. Um, miss the youth. [Chris Angel laughs] Um, I went to my - um, I went to CSU, so Colorado State in Fort Collins, Colorado for my undergrad, and hopped into this very outdoorsy person there, did a lot of like, camping, backpacking, biking, you know, a lot of the outdoorsy things. And then my major was entrepreneurship, minor in global environmental sustainability. So was very into my minor of the sustainability. So I dove very deep into that. Through my studies, I was able to kind of combine all of my passions of the outdoors and sustainability through all the workshops I led at camp.

Chris Angel Murphy 18:31

That's awesome. Is there anything you're planning on doing differently this year, when you go back to Brave Trails?

Charlie Sprinkman 18:38

I'm excited to share that they're actually bringing on their first entire summer paid staff - um, core staff. I, unfortunately, don't have the opportunity to go for the whole summer with my current job, so I'm just going for one session. I'm not going to be a cabin counselor, I'm just going to be kind of behind the scenes, what they call "A-team." All the things happen behind the scenes. Um, but, beyond grateful to be going back to brave trails to feel that energy again. It's truly euphoric.

Chris Angel Murphy 19:08

Something that's really cool about the LGBTQ+ community is that some of us hit a point where we want to pay it forward or give back or make things better for the youth, just like you've been touching on a lot throughout our conversation. And I guess I'm curious for adults who might be interested in volunteering or getting involved in some ways, what do you think are some of the most important, like, skills or things that folks would need that they could bring that Brave Trails could really use?

Charlie Sprinkman 19:41

Um, I did see that Brave Trails is offering folks to come up to camp for just one day to teach a workshop, so like, volunteer to teach something of their own skill. And the most amazing thing about Brave Trails is, is that they truly welcome all. I mean, like, I'm talking workshops that I had never even heard of, things that I had never heard of before. But truly just diving into, like, your own unique skills, and then bringing it to the Brave Trails community is something that they totally would be open to hearing about, I know for sure. They had, like, video game workshops to intro to fatphobia to racism workshops to a bunch of things that are just so beneficial for our youth just to start conversations. But allowing youth though to find community, even if it's, you know, intro to fatphobia, finding others that are interested in this and, you know, talking about this is what's so cool about Brave Trails, is you can turn so many things into - any idea or anything into a community thing to just to bring the people together.

Chris Angel Murphy 20:49

Yeah, and y'all just had a reunion of sorts. Could you share about that a little bit, and what that was like?

Charlie Sprinkman 20:56

Yeah, absolutely. I flew down to LA from Oregon. They had a little roller skating event, so campers were able to come. And we were able to, yeah, connect with some of the campers. Quite a few counselors came. And we were able to just bring a little bit of that queer magic from camp together a little bit into a roller rink in LA.

Chris Angel Murphy 21:19

That's so cool. Brave Trails was the inspiration for Everywhere is Queer. In an Instagram post on January 2nd of 2022, you shared that the idea for Everywhere is Queer popped into your mind as you were driving back home from your first summer volunteering. Tell us more about that.

Charlie Sprinkman 21:39

Definitely, that experience of being with 100 queer folks at Brave Trails was just the most magical experience ever, um. Kind of felt like I was walking down the streets of New York at camp, you know. It's like, no one's judging you. No one's commenting on my voice. No one's saying anything like that. So it's just a really - I will say euphoric experience. And so, yeah, coming out of camp, I was like, "How can I build this more in our world?" And as you mentioned, that's when Everywhere is Queer came to mind, and I was driving by myself, and was driving from LA back to Colorado where I lived at the time. And when this idea came, I just kept racking my brain, and then I kept wanting to like, Google, but I was driving, so I couldn't, because I was like, "Is this an idea already? Am I going to really drive 15 hours thinking about this whole idea, and then get to Colorado and have it be an idea already?" So I got home, and I just really just dove right into my computer and was like trying to see if this existed.

Chris Angel Murphy 22:37

Yeah, I think what's been challenging about it is that there are some, like, underground lists and stuff, but it just becomes this huge burden to maintain. And you've done this great job of utilizing a resource that it's a lot easier for you to just approve of people's post. And, you know, it's, it's really been taking off, which is incredible. And so Everywhere is Queer has had so much success since its launch. You know, within six days of creating the account, you already had 1000 followers on Instagram. And just recently, you hit the milestone of sitting at 500 businesses listed, which is incredible. At any point, like, has anyone else been working on this with you? Or are you hoping that you'll be able to bring other people on?

Charlie Sprinkman 23:28

Yeah, um, that's a really great question. And I do want to say that, um, there isn't not anything like this that has existed before, as you mentioned earlier. I don't want to take all the claim to fame here. There are so many people that have put work into, you know, registries, lists of queer-owned businesses and spaces. This is not just my own original idea here to do this. So I do want to say that. But yes, the success and the 500 businesses on the map thus far - I am the only one. I've had some friends here and there say, like, they'd love to help me, and maybe have helped me with some content here and there. But I am the only one. I have not made any money. I do have a donation - for people to donate when a business adds themselves, as I do want to, I'm trying to raise money to develop it into an official app. But besides those donations, I have not made any money on Everywhere is Queer yet. And would love to build it into something where I had a team one day. Um, that, that's a dream of mine.

Charlie Sprinkman 24:29

I actually do have a lot of things in the works. Um, a lot of conversations being had right now. I will vaguely say, because I can't guarantee that these are all going to happen, but we might be having a beverage coming out, we might be having some events coming out. Yeah, we're in the works of conversations so far. We might have some spaces, some bigger spaces to share Everywhere is Queer's story, which is really cool. I definitely I'm taking it beyond, and want to take it beyond, just the map. I want to take this to a bigger platform to uplift the voices of the businesses on the map for sure.

Chris Angel Murphy 25:08

For the next question, I asked Charlie about how their app would be different from something like Yelp. And for that, we first need to talk about restrooms. Hang with me, I promise it'll make sense. One of the first queer websites I ever visited and loved was the Safe2Pee database. It was a community-organized way to map out gender-neutral restrooms across the world. I happily included my own additions, because even now I still have to plan my days around bathrooms that feel safe to me. It eventually became RefugeRestrooms.org and is still going strong today.

Chris Angel Murphy 25:14

On March 3rd 2017, Yelp rolled out a new feature that allowed patrons to see if businesses had a gender-neutral restroom. Yelp didn't cite the previous resource but rather talked about student activist Gavin Grimm, who filed suit against his local school board for denying him use of the boys' restroom at his school. Yelp announced their support of him and had taken stances on similar issues, which to me is a great example of allyship in action. Yelp rolled out another feature on May 24th of 2021 that allowed businesses to claim being LGBTQ+ owned.

Chris Angel Murphy 26:25

You may wonder, then, why would Charlie create something like Everywhere is Queer, and have it be a map dedicated to queer-owned businesses if folks could easily use something like Yelp? Because of the power of community. Here's where I'm landing currently: why not both? Why not support and be excited about community-led resources, and also have excitement for larger companies taking a stand and offering features that can be helpful, especially if folks don't know about the community efforts? A value add for the community efforts is that it's easier to narrow it down because you're only looking at gender-neutral restrooms or queer-owned businesses. If you were taking a road trip, resources like Refuge Restrooms and Everywhere is Queer are excellent, and can be more tailored to community needs.

Chris Angel Murphy 27:18

Yelp also has other features like denoting whether or not a place is wheelchair accessible. All of that to say, I think both have strength, and both are working toward the greater good. I hope that by taking the time to give some of this history and context, that it's helpful, and now you'll know about resources that may be new to you. The last thing I'll say is, unfortunately, not everyone can be out and proud about being queer or LGBTQ+ owned. It's been brought up in several conversations on the podcast now, though it can be a privilege to share this kind of information, especially places like the internet. And that's why I think it's further important to give a nod to other community-led efforts doing similar work of various sizes in their local communities.

Chris Angel Murphy 28:07

So I'm curious, what makes your app different? What do you hope people's experience will be like on it if it - if like, money weren't a barrier, all the technology were there, like, what would be your ultimate goal for the app?

Charlie Sprinkman 28:21

I'm actually really inspired by an app called MKE Black, which is an app for Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And it provides, you know, Black-owned restaurants, resources, a lot of different things there. And I had been using that app in Milwaukee when I was home in the pandemic. And I really enjoyed how they have laid out their app and everything. But yeah, I absolutely recognize that Yelp has those resources. Um, I also love that Everywhere is Queer is like, one spot for queer-owned businesses and nothing really else outside of it. And I absolutely hope that people can use Everywhere is Queer as they travel, as they, you know, look locally to support queer-owned businesses within their own hometown. And with all the money in the world, I mean, I think we could make a really cool Everywhere is Queer app that I, has - will have things in it that I haven't even thought of yet. [Charlie and Chris Angel laugh]

Chris Angel Murphy 29:22

It's, it's fun to be in that space sometimes and think about "what if?"

Charlie Sprinkman 29:27

Yeah.

Chris Angel Murphy 29:27

Well, we've been talking a lot about queer spaces. What does it mean for you to be in queer spaces? And why is it so important that we have those?

Charlie Sprinkman 29:37

It brings me back to my Brave Trails experience, and the amount of lack of judgment that I felt, um, for just me being me in that space, like, Brave Trails. So my hope is that - I mean, even as an ally and not part of the queer community - is that you can enter these spaces, like, these queer-owned businesses on the map, and feel less judgment, you know? I had a friend, um, who joined me and Mike, we're friends, on our trip to Portland. Uh, and just this past weekend came up to me and was like, "You know, I just, like, love your friend group, because I just didn't feel any judgment for me being me, you know?" As one that's not part of the queer community and a really great ally, he was like, "I really just value hanging out with you and your friends. I just don't feel any judgment." So I want that to, like, carry on through, you know, as allies or people not part of the community hoping that they have that same experience, you know?

Chris Angel Murphy 29:37

Yeah. And I think an unfortunate reality is that not all queer spaces are inherently safer.

Charlie Sprinkman 30:46

Yeah.

Chris Angel Murphy 30:47

And what I mean by that is that sometimes, for example, at Pride events, I'm thinking more, like, corporate ones, larger cities, there can be folks within the community who look down on straight appearing couples, where they don't really know if one of them's trans, or if they're bisexual, pansexual, or what's going on. So they can be a little bit like, "why are you here?" Or there are spaces that can be intentionally not inclusive of folks with, within like, let's say, like, the trans community or things like that.

Charlie Sprinkman 31:23

Yeah.

Chris Angel Murphy 31:23

I'm wondering... I don't even know what my question is, [Chris Angel laughs] as I'm thinking about this, but I'm curious, have you experienced those kinds of spaces? And how do you navigate that, I guess, is what I want to ask.

Charlie Sprinkman 31:41

I will always - and try to lead with an open heart open mind, in every experience I have. Even Everywhere is Queer has opened my brain to "heterosexual" relationships with one person being queer or bisexual. Um, I've met some business owners, I've had some cry to me because they feel like they're not part of the queer community, and don't feel welcome in the queer community. And, you know, all I had to say was, we here at Everywhere is Queer - it's just me, but [Charlie laughs] - I, uh, see you fully as someone that is part of the queer community if you want to be part of the queer community. If you don't want to be part of the queer community, that's totally cool, too. I see you as human. I mean, I want to see every human as a beating heart from - you know, so. I welcome all at Pride.

Chris Angel Murphy 32:30

That's really beautiful. It's something that you briefly mentioned earlier in our conversation that I wanted to come back to. So you on April 4th, of 2022, on your Instagram, you got really personal and you posted a reel to the Everywhere is Queer account. And you shared that, and this is a direct quote, "voice dysphoria is a real thing in my life, and I have been called a woman, like, so many times in my life on a daily basis. I'm a cis man, and I am just wanting to create this video to relate to anyone out there that feels the same way or struggles with these things." First, I guess I wanted to just ask, how did it feel after you posted that?

Charlie Sprinkman 33:18

Um, that's a really great question. I will be honest, I was like, "Did I say something wrong? Am I going to offend someone?" You know, all those typical things of like, posting a vulnerable post on social media, um, especially to a lot of people that I don't know. And it was really my first, like, vulnerable video that I've posted on Everywhere is Queer. But - I haven't looked, but there's, like, over 40 comments of just people giving so much love to me and to others, you know, just letting people know that their voice is beautiful, no matter what your voice is. And, you know, I really, um, wanted to share that video because I hadn't even ever heard of the term voice dysphoria until Brave Trails. And at Brave Trails, I just, like - it just, like, I was, like, "Yes, whoa, I've experienced and felt all of these things so often in my life."

Charlie Sprinkman 34:17

And I wanted to make a video on Everywhere is Queer because I am a human, and I know that other people have these similar experiences and maybe relate to what I had to say, and I want people to feel heard and, you know, you're not alone. There's a lot of us that feel this way, and I was born with this voice, um, and I'm - I have to love it. And I don't - I mean, it's taken a long time for me to get to a point to say, "I love my voice." And I'm ready. I love it. And I'm ready to share it and rock it, and be a part of things like this that maybe I would not want to be a part of because I wouldn't want my voice, just my voice recording, going out to the world. But I'm here. I'm ready.

Chris Angel Murphy 35:01

Yeah, I mean, and that was definitely something I was thinking about as we were setting up this podcast episode, was how that was going to feel for you and if there was anything on my end I could do to make you feel more comfortable about it. And I think it speaks to this larger issue, and the topic of this podcast is that something that's challenging about allyship is not everyone's going to want the same kind of support or action from the people around them. However, you know, if we're friends, and you've just shared with me that you're experiencing voice dysphoria, how might I be able to show my support and care for you, when you're sharing something like that with me? Like, what would feel good to you personally?

Charlie Sprinkman 35:41

Honestly, I would say, uh, maybe just don't say things like, "Oh, you sound like a woman." [Charlie laughs] You know, because those are the things that are just - I've heard all my life that don't make me feel great. I am me. I don't know if there's anything in particular, it's just, um, really just like being aware of not making those comments that might make someone feel uncomfortable, like commenting on their voice. Like, we don't need to comment on people's bodies and voices and things that could maybe not make them feel very comfortable.

Chris Angel Murphy 36:15

Absolutely. And for those listening, who maybe aren't familiar with voice dysphoria, how would you describe that in your own words? And like, how does that feel for you, if you feel comfortable sharing?

Charlie Sprinkman 36:27

I would say, uh, voice dysphoria is something when someone doesn't quite feel comfortable in their voice, whether it be listening back and hearing your voice in a recording, it feels uncomfortable to hear your own voice. Yeah, I would just say not feeling comfortable with the voice that you have.

Chris Angel Murphy 36:52

And for those out there who may be struggling with that currently, I'm wondering, you mentioned about working towards loving your voice. What are some of the things that helped you to get to that place and work through the voice dysphoria, and how people have been perceiving you?

Charlie Sprinkman 37:14

it took me time to realize that the people that are commenting on my voice are commenting because of the societal structure that we've been ingrained to live in. We are meant to be this way, sound this way, look this way, be this way. It's what we've been ingrained and taught and what I was taught, you know. People, certain people have to be exactly like this, certain people have to be exactly like this. And when I started to, like, really realize that when someone comments on my voice, or I don't feel comfortable with my voice, because I was told that I have to sound like this, like our society says, I have to sound like this. And when I am able to today be like, "Screw that, like, our society doesn't have to tell me what I have to sound like or be like or do." And when I can, like, let go of that, I'm like, I'm me, I'm ready to live. You know? So I just really - when someone does feel uncomfortable with your voice, just remember that, you know, anyone that comments on your voice or anything like that, know that that's because our society is ingrained in them. And it's not on you. And your voice is beautiful.

Chris Angel Murphy 38:27

Aww, what a lovely message. Switching gears a bit, you've traveled a great deal throughout the States for a previous job, just over 40 out of 50 of the States. And with that you slept at least one night in each of those States, and you know, would search for things like queer spots in whatever city you were in. I'm curious. what were some of your favorite spots and why?

Charlie Sprinkman 38:53

Yeah, I'm so beyond grateful to have had that opportunity to travel so much in that previous job. It was so cool to see so much of our country. As my little queer heart, that was the beginning of my, my - I had, I'd come out at that point, but I hadn't traveled too much as a queer person at that point. Um, so I really had only known Wisconsin, and then Colorado. And so being able to travel to so many different areas was just so amazing. But my answer is New York City. [Charlie laughs] New York City totally took my heart. I spent a few months there in my time of traveling in that year. And I actually ended up moving to New York City after leaving that job. Unfortunately, the pandemic then hit and I moved out, but was ready to, um, New York stole my heart for sure.

Chris Angel Murphy 39:43

What was the energy there or the community like that attracted you?

Charlie Sprinkman 39:47

Yeah, just walking down the street of New York City. I mean, Brooklyn or even Manhattan. I just felt like no one was staring at you as - and judging you, you know? It was you walk down the streets of New York and its just beautiful way of just, like, you're - you do your own thing and you know, you can wear whatever you want, and you can be whoever you want to be. And just feeling that energy as a, as a baby queer at that point was- just rocked my world.

Chris Angel Murphy 40:19

What's one allyship tip you'd like for everyone listening to consider?

Charlie Sprinkman 40:24

My allyship tip is, is we love queer people supporting queer people, but we also love allies supporting queer folks. So I would love to start to see more allies following Everywhere is Queer. A lot of the folks that have followed Everywhere is Queer are queer, which is great, I welcome every single follower, but would love for some allies to start following and spreading the word of Everywhere is Queer as well, because this is not just for queer people. This is for everyone.

Chris Angel Murphy 40:58

Wow. Well, Charlie, thank you so much for taking the time to record this episode with me. I had a wonderful time getting to know you better, and learn more about Everywhere is Queer. And it's such a treat for me to be able to share some of my favorite resources with y'all, so hopefully, some of them are new to you, and you'll be able to check them out and support them, like Everywhere is Queer.

Chris Angel Murphy 41:24

I'm going to go ahead and read off the final three self-reflection questions, and then if you can just hang on a little bit after that, if you're curious about how you can get involved with Everywhere is Queer, including getting your queer-owned business on the map, stick around, because I'm going to have Charlie talk us through that. Alright, so,

4. Have I ever been in a queer space? What did that feel like for me?

5. How would it feel for me or people I care about to have access to more queer spaces?

6. Do I know who owns the businesses I support?

Chris Angel Murphy 42:04

If you want to get involved with Everywhere is Queer, there are many ways you can. I'm going to let Charlie talk about how you can get your queer-owned business on the map, expand on the job board that's available, and encourage you to reach out to Charlie via the "about" section on EverywhereIsQueer.com, which has a "let's connect" form, especially if you want to collaborate in some way.

Charlie Sprinkman 42:29

For queer-owned businesses to add to Everywhere is Queer, there's two ways that you can do that. If you have an Instagram, the link in our Instagram will take you to our link tree which has our worldwide map form to be on the map, collaborative Spotify playlist, our website. But yeah, you'll just click "form to be on map" and then you'll fill out the short form - name of your business, location, city, state, it can be if you're brick and mortar you can put an exact address, you can also just put a city and state if you're an online, let's say Etsy. account. We welcome all. And then just a little bit more information about your business - bio, how people can contact you, you can put N/A if you don't want anything there. And then a category that your business fits into, which will be the little logo that will pop up on the map. We do have an "other" category if you don't see yourself fitting in any of those.

Charlie Sprinkman 43:20

Absolutely worldwide. We have pins in Italy, Spain, Germany, the UK, South Africa, Costa Rica, Mexico, um, and so much more to come. And then the other way you can do it if you don't have Instagram is www.EverywhereIsQueer.com. And this will take you to exactly everything I just listed: our worldwide map, form to be on the map, and our job board and everything there. We also do have an online store, which we sell stickers and little stock cards right now. We do have a job board for the businesses that are on the map. We would love to promote and hopefully someone from the Everywhere is Queer community could apply to one of your jobs or opportunities. That's why I'm building a job board.

Chris Angel Murphy 44:08

Visit AllyshipIsAVerb.com for any resources and a full transcript of the episode. And remember, sometimes allyship means supporting queer businesses.

 
Charlie Ocean https://www.chrisangelmurphy.com
Previous

Dominic
Next

K Strohl